Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Blast from the Past #483: Thoughts on a second TMNT movie, from 1990

While resurrecting those old emails to Lloyd I mentioned a little while ago, I also found two interesting short documents on that computer. They were things I had written back in 1990, if the dates on the files are accurate, and it seems likely that they are.

Apparently, I had -- either by myself or in collaboration with Kevin Eastman, though I think it is probably the former -- been thinking about possible directions to take in a second live-action TMNT movie, and typed up these thoughts on my old (well, it was new then) Atari ST computer. I then must have, at some point in the more recent past, transferred the files from the Atari to my Macintosh. 

Unfortunately, something happened in the transfer which screwed up the formatting of the files -- when I opened them on my Mac laptop last night, I discovered that all of the spaces in the documents had disappeared, leaving the entire text in each file as one long unbroken word. I tried to fix this mess with various reformatting options in several word processing programs, but nothing worked. Then I decided I would just go in and insert spaces between each word, and after a couple of hours of that, realized to my dismay that the formatting was STILL wacky.

So, I took the brute force approach that I guess I should have taken to begin with -- I just retyped both documents. I corrected two misspellings, but other than that, these two documents are as they were originally written.

I am not sure, exactly, for what, or to whom, they were intended. They kind of read as if we'd intended to send them to Steve Barron or whoever was chosen to direct the second TNT movie. I can't recall if they were ever sent to anyone.

Anyway, technical snafus aside, these are kind of interesting. As I re-read them, I could see a lot of the excitement we'd had about doing a second movie, as well as a number of naive assumptions about what might be possible. And there's at least one thing that I was surprised to read -- a scene which I believe actually ended up in an episode of the 4Kids TMNT TV series. -- PL


Here's the first file:

"thoughts on a sequel for the TMNT movie 

How's this for an opening (or closing) scene for the second TMNT movie (maybe run under the credits): A garbage truck rumbles past the camera, heading for the landfill. It stops at the edge of a hill of refuse. The two sanitation engineers get out of the truck, and go around back to make sure the truck makes its dump properly. As the trash spills out, one of the guys sees something metallic glinting in the mess, and pulls it out. He holds it up, and in a medium closeup we see that it's the Shredder's helmet, crushed and twisted.

We both feel that the Shredder should not appear in the second TNT movie, but this might be a subtle enough way to refer to his ambiguous fate and set the scene for his appearance in a third TMNT movie (if that happens).

Anyway… one main concern is that the second (and any subsequent) movie stay as much away from the cartoon show, and as close to the original black and white comics, as the first movie did. We don't want to see Bebop and Rocksteady, or Krang, or any of the other goofy characters. We feel that there is plenty of material in the black and white books to form the basis for another good movie.

One possible approach would be to use some of the elements in TMNT book #2 (the Baxter Stockman/mousers story), or issues 3, 4 and 7. The Stockman/mousers tale is pretty straightforward, and could be lifted from the book with little alterations (have to find another assistant for Stockman, as in the movie April already has a different job). A conceivable addition would be the Rat King character that Jim Lawson created in issue #4 of "Tales of the TMNT", who was also used in the animated series, but not in the best of fashions. The Rat King could be a really neat, visually arresting character on film, and there could be some interesting interactions with him, Splinter, and the mousers.

Going the other way, using TMNT's 3, 4, and 7, would require more alterations, but also would offer some neat possibilities for action and story, not to mention some bitchin' special effects… and a set up for the next film. Before getting int o this, you should probably re-read the aforementioned issues.

Okay… this story wold involve revealing part of the mystery behind the Turtles' origin, that being where the mysterious canister of ooze came from, namely, the Techno-Cosmic Research Institute (T.C.R.I.). The story could follow fairly closely to the story in book four -- the Turtles are jumped by the Foot, there's a big fight, Mike gets hurt. they see the T.C.R.I. building, they try to find out more about it (but can't), they decide to surreptitiously enter it to find out more, they encounter the weird T.C.R.I. aliens (the Utroms -- they are little squishy brain-like creatures about the size of a basketball, and ride around in the stomach cavity of their humanoid robot vehicles), there's another fight, the transmat machine the Utroms have been building is accidentally switched on and goes wild, and in the ensuing melee three Triceratons are beamed in. This makes for an even more intense fight, ending with one of the Triceratons being stunned and the other two killed. Somehow, the Utroms ad the Turtles reach an understanding, and Donatello helps them repair their transmat, while Leo and the other Turtles help hold off the forces of the New York City police and the National Guard, who are trying to force their way into the building (the power surge from the accidentally activated transmat blacked out ten city blocks). In the end, the aliens are able to beam themselves back to their home planet, the Turtles escape, the building collapses, and all is well in the world.

(Note that this sets up a scenario in which the "Return to New York" story [as told by us in issues 19, 20 and 21 of TMNT] could be the basis of a third movie, involving the return and ultimate fate of the Shredder, and the mutated Triceraton's team-up with the Turtles to invade the Shredder's domain.)

I think that there are a number of new elements from the first movie that could be easily integrated into this plot. There could be an extension of the developing relationship between Casey and April, possibly with Charles Pennington as a third party in a kind of romantic triangle (some potentially interesting contrast of Casey's and Charles' personalities here). Danny could be brought  back, and possibly he could try to help the Turtles by infiltrating the T.C.R.I. building -- but he gets caught by the Utroms, and ends up in one of their suspended animation tanks, to be discovered by the Turtles… in fact, his disappearance could be one of the reasons they enter the building. Actually, for that matter it could be April who does it, doing her nosey reporter thing… except she gets too nosey, and the aliens take her captive. That might even be a good reason for Casey to go with the Turtles, getting him in on the action (and providing a good opportunity for a rescue/reunion clinch with April).

The T.C.R.I. aliens could be a really neat effect, relatively easily done by the Henson shop. Envision a robot body similar to the Terminator's metal skeleton, with a squishy alien brain in its midriff. As we drew them in the comics, they would be pretty workable as a combination bodysuit/radio-controlled puppet (for the alien part). Major facial movements for the aliens could be done in medium closeups, without the need for the stunt person or actor to be inside the robot suit.

Similarly, the Triceratons could be accomplished by the geniuses at the Henson group without much of a problem.

Another element that we feel should be in the second movie is the spiritual nature of the Turtles' martial arts training, and the fact that Splinter has taught them the ways of the ninja with a twist: they follow the pacifist/warrior ways of the Shaolin monks of China, who advised that, when confronted with aggression, one should "avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill." This could be well done in a scene where the Turtles are trying to teach Casey some of their moves, and his temper gets the best of him until Splinter intervenes.


more thoughts -- 5-8-1990

We could use the whole mouser scenario that is in book 2… only tie the mousers in with the T.C.R.I. guys -- they created the mousers. Baxter Stockman is actually a T.C.R.I. alien, fronting his mouser idea as a way of making money for the company, to aid their efforts to get off the planet.
(This sets up a scene where Casey confronts Baxter (in the T.C.R.I. building, where he and April have gone to investigate further, with Casey posing as April's cameraman), socking him in the jaw… with the result that Casey almost breaks his hand, and Baxter pulls open his shirt to reveal the T.C.R.I. alien in his robotic belly."


Here's the second file:

"Teenage Mutant NInja Turtles #2: The Sequel

A Proposed Outline

We open on April O'Neil doing a remote spot covering the test of a new anti-rodent device, called the MOUSER, at the laboratory of Dr. Baxter Stockman, a 30-ish, bespectacled and mustachioed black man. Stockman runs the MOUSER through its paces -- the little robot with the savage gaping jaws chases a large rat through a maze and devours it in less than twenty second -- and, in response to a question from an unnerved April about what he plans to do with his device, Stockman replies that the city of New York has already given him funds to develop an initial force of a dozen mousers, to, in his words, "begin to take care of the city's rat problem -- once and for all!" Closeup on April's face, as she reacts to this statement…

… and dissolve to a closeup of Splinter's hairy face, and pull back to show him sitting cross-legged in front of a TV set, looking very thoughtful as we hear the tail end of April's report. Nearby, Donatello works on a circuit board, soldering small pieces of wire to it… tool and miscellaneous supplies are strewn around the floor. Across from him, Leonardo sits next to Splinter, carefully polishing one of his katana blades. We hear the background noise of sparring going on.

Suddenly, Raphael flies into view, crashing down on a coffee table and smashing it into pieces. Michaelangelo, who has worked a masterful judo move on Raphael, calls out affectionate jibes from the sidelines.

But Raphael doesn't see them as affectionate. He's well on his way to losing his temper, and as he loses it, her gets more careless, allowing Mike to continually get the upper hand on him. Gradually, though, Mike starts to see that Raph is getting vicious. Splinter and the two Turtles notice it too, but not before Raph grabs one of Leo's swords and goes after a shocked Michaelangelo, who stumbles and loses his footing, leaving him defenseless against Raph's berserker rage. It looks bad…

… but just then Leo and Don grab Raph's arms, holding him back Leo yells at Raph "Are you nuts??! What are you trying to do, lill Mike??!! It's just sparring, for Gods sake… just practice!"

With a start, Raphael realizes what he's doing. He drops the sword like it's suddenly red hot, and begins to stammer out a halting apology. Splinter comes over to try to calm Raph down, but Raph's anger and shame overcome him -- he tears away and goes bounding off. Leo starts to follow, but Splinter stops him, saying "Raphael will return… let him deal with his anger first."

(Note: All this takes place in the Turtles' and Splinter's new home in the sewers, a new lair that they have fixed up since the battle with the Foot in the first movie.)

Later… Casey arrives at the TV station to pick April up for their date. April, who's been waiting outside for the last half hour, is quietly fuming… and not at all amused with Casey's half-hearted excuses for his lateness -- or by his car, a real rattletrap. They get in, and Casey tries to start the car -- it won't start. As Casey tries again, and April rolls her eyes, Charles Pennington comes out of the building. His eyes narrow a bit when he sees Casey with April, and then he smirks at Casey's malfunctioning wreck of a vehicle. "Need a lift, April?" he asks, gesturing at his brand new BMW. She hesitates… until Casey, with his usual thing layer of tact frayed even further by the bad start this date with April has gotten off to, says something like :Yeah, why don't you go ridin' with the four-eyed wonder." At this, April gets pissed, and she does just that, leaving Casey sitting in his car, giving it an occasional kick and curse.

A week or so later: April is doing a news story about a strange series of robberies, in which bank vaults were tunneled into and valuables extracted, with no trace of the culprits.

That's where the second file ends. I am not sure why I never finished it. -- PL


  1. Interesting. I always wondered why none of the movies actually did use Baxter Stockman. Its hard to believe that after 4 movies they never decided to give him a big screen debut.

    Is it because they wouldn't know how to do the Mousers as puppets back in the early 90's? Obviously if Nick/Viacom decide to do it NOW, the Mousers would likely be all CG.

    The second movie did use the TCRI building just leaving out all the Utrom stuff. Did they feel that kids would confuse the Utroms with Krang at the time? I remember reading that Professor Jordan Perry from the second movie was supposed to be an Utrom, was this true?

    1. "ScottFeb 28, 2012 07:51 PM
      Interesting. I always wondered why none of the movies actually did use Baxter Stockman. Its hard to believe that after 4 movies they never decided to give him a big screen debut.

Is it because they wouldn't know how to do the Mousers as puppets back in the early 90's? Obviously if Nick/Viacom decide to do it NOW, the Mousers would likely be all CG."

      That's certainly a possibility -- back then, doing a horde of small bipedal robots would have been quite the chore, and probably would have used up most of the special effects budget. But maybe the "powers that be" also felt they weren't enough of a threat to the Turtles. It's hard for me to say for certain, because… I don't know!


"The second movie did use the TCRI building just leaving out all the Utrom stuff. Did they feel that kids would confuse the Utroms with Krang at the time?"

      Possibly, but I think that would not have mattered that much. I mean, look at the first movie versus the first TV series -- did kids "get confused" because, for example, in the movie, the Foot ninja are clearly humans, in fact mostly teenagers, while in the TV series they were just robots? Did kids get "confused" by the fact that in the movie, Splinter was originally a rat who was the pet of Hamato Yoshi, while in the TV series Splinter was Hamato Yoshi himself, mutated? If kids DID get "confused" by those things, it certainly didn't impede the success of the movie (at least not noticeably!).

      My gut feeling is that the "powers that be" who were making those decisions about the movie just did not have a grasp on what kids like or dislike, and REALLY underestimated the intelligence and taste of most kids.

      And they ignored the fact -- which seemed so obvious to us -- that with a movie geared towards kids, it is almost imperative to ALSO make it palatable for the adults who will be TAKING those kids to see it. I firmly believe that's one of the big reasons the first movie was so much more successful that the second -- the first one actually could hold adults' interest through repeated viewings, while the second one bored them silly.

      "I remember reading that Professor Jordan Perry from the second movie was supposed to be an Utrom, was this true?"

      My recollection is that the Utrom connection WAS in the movie, and that there was a brief scene near the end of the movie when Prof. Perry lifts up his shirt and reveals the Utrom within. I think I heard that it was actually filmed, but I've never seen it, so can't verify that. I think it would have been very cool to have that in the second movie, as it could have set up a rollicking sci-fi adventure for the third live-action movie.

      But instead, they went with stupid crap like the scene in the disco, and "Super Shredder" with his mysteriously mutating ARMOR (what the heck was up with THAT??!!!), among others, wasting a lot of time which could have been spent building a better story and setting up the third movie. -- PL

  2. Very interesting read. In a way, it kind of reminds me of being a kid and talking with friends about all the cool stuff we wanted to see in the movies or episodes or games. That same energy is kind of there.

    This proposal is pretty ambitious and, like you said, a bit naive. I know as a kid that I would have been disappointed if I had heard that the second movie would not have Shredder or any mutant villain characters, but I would have loved to have seen the Triceratons.

    I guess, in a way, it wouldn't have mattered if the second movie delivered the kind of story the audience expected since people would have gone to see it no matter what.


    1. "I guess, in a way, it wouldn't have mattered if the second movie delivered the kind of story the audience expected since people would have gone to see it no matter what. "

      Dylan, I am not sure if you intended this or not, but in your last line you hit on what is one of the sad truths behind the relative failure -- creatively and financially -- of the second TMNT live-action movie. I firmly believe that the "powers that be" foolishly and short-sightedly believed that since, as you put it, "people would have gone to see it no matter what", they could put out any piece of junk and they'd make money from it.

      I realize that is something of an oversimplification, but it goes to the heart of the problem -- the "powers that be" saw the amazing success of the first TMNT movie, which was made on a relatively tiny budget, and they figured they could just do it again without really making much of an effort. There was such a disheartening dearth of comprehension among them about WHY that first movie had been so successful… to this day it pains me to remember. -- PL

    2. That is sort of what I meant, in a way, but I was really trying to articulate that it was a missed opportunity to bring something interesting to the table. Seeing Shredder return and create new evil mutant characters was pretty much exactly what I expected as a kid, and for better or worse the movie delivered that. To bring something completely different, like the Utroms and the Triceratons, and not have Shredder at all, would have been unexpected, and probably confusing to me as a kid, but it wouldn't have mattered because, like I said, people would have seen it anyway and possibly loved it just as much, if not more, than what we got. So I was lamenting a bit on what I now see as a lost chance to do something different and expand the scope of the Turtles franchise a bit rather than go with the predictable concept we got.

      I'm sure that the controversy over the supposed violence in the first film started by the parent/teacher groups of the time played into the development of the second. One has to wonder though, maybe punching aliens and robots on screen wouldn't have been so bad in their eyes?


  3. Wow! This would have been a better movie to watch in my opinion. I’m not trying to knock the second TMNT Live Action Movie. It was alright for what it was. Fans seamed to dig it at the time (go ninja, go ninja, go..) It was just a little too cartoony for my taste. I preferred the first film. It took all the right elements from the comics. I thought some of the scenes on the farm in Northampton where so well done. As well as the fight scene in New York at April’s apartment, the Turtles fleeing New York with the “Second Time Around” shop going up in flames. In the second film I would have loved to see Utroms, Triceratons, the inside of the TCRI building a bit more. A fight scene inside the TCRI building in front of the transmat machine would have been some sweet eye candy on the big screen. I agree that Henson’s Creature Shop could have pulled it off. These guys did the “Dark Crystal” and “The Labyrinth”, they could have pulled off any creature they set their mind on creating, even an army of Mousers. I have no doubts about that. I watched the first live action film again last summer with my son. Henson’s TMNT still hold up today. They look great! The studio hired the wrestler Kevin Nash to play the “Super Shredder”. They could have put him in a suit with an animatronics Triceraton head and, they would have had one big, mean, awesome, Triceraton. Personally, I like the idea of not having the Shredder come back as the main villain. I understand the fans at the time wanted Shredder to be the villain and, most likely, wanted him in the sequel, I for one would have rather have seen Stockman play more of the “Bad Guy” role. The idea of the Rat King as one of the villains is cool too. (Lawson came up with the Rat King? I never knew that. Very Cool! I learn something new everyday.)
    The idea of a love triangle between Casey April, and Charles would have been fun to watch too. It would have been neat to see how it would have played out. I really like the idea of Raphael loosing is temper while sparring with Mike. I grew up with a brother and we would spar with each other. There was a couple occasions when I am sure we would have beat the crap out of each other if not for the parental intervention. I think putting this in the movie would have made the characters more relatable, at least for me. It would have also given the Turtles a lot more depth then I felt they had in the second film. To me the TMNT was always about family. It’s four brothers trying to work together. (I’m not sure if you intended that but, that’s what I get from it.) I think adding the brotherly conflict would have added to the dynamics of the characters. Like I said, my brother and I came to blows more than once, sometimes our personalities would clash, but when he needs me I am there by his side. No matter what, he is my brother and, I love him. Isn’t that the relationship Raphael has had with his brothers? The “you piss me off sometimes but, I’m here for you” kind of relationship. I think that would have been a lot deeper than the relationship the turtles had in the second film. It would have made it far more interesting.
    Again, I’m not trying to pick on the second film. Kids liked it, my son even likes it. I just would have rather have seen the film you have outlined here. I think people would have still have liked it and, it would have been a better quality film. Oh well – we can dream about what could have been. Nothing wrong with that.
    Thanks for taking the time to re-type this. It sounds like it was a pain in the rear but, this has been a really interesting and enjoyable read. Have a good one Pete.

    1. "I’m not trying to knock the second TMNT Live Action Movie. It was alright for what it was. Fans seamed to dig it at the time (go ninja, go ninja, go..) It was just a little too cartoony for my taste."

      And mine as well! I would go even further and say it was WAY too cartoony, reflecting the extremely limited perception of the "powers that be" who were in charge of producing that film.

      Just as one example -- and I know I have mentioned this before, but it bears repeating, I think -- I still recall my sense of disbelief and despair when I heard one of these people -- in a conversation about how they were going to "fix" all the "mistakes" made by the first film when they made the second one -- go on and on about how "dark" the first movie was.

      Well, it couldn't have been TOO freakin' "dark"… because it made A HUNDRED AND THIRTY-FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, on a budget which was -- as I understand it -- about fifteen percent of that amount!!!

      WHAT IS TO "FIX"!!!???

      Sorry… I get wound up when I think about it. -- PL

    2. No need to apologize for getting "worked up". I don't blame you one bit. It seems to me that the "Powers that Be" did not understand what made the first one work. The first meeting of Raphael and Casey Jones, The fight with the foot in New York, burning down April's apartment and shop, fleeing to the Farm in Northampton, the ending rooftop battle between Splinter, the Turtles and Shredder. It all was so well done. I remember the first time I watched it and saw the scene where Raphael is beat nearly to death and plunged through April's skylight. He was laying there unconscious in April's arms. It blew my mind. It was as if the visual of that scene was ripped right from the comic. I remember watching it thinking "Yes! They got it right!" There where little things that helped the first film work too. The tension between Raphael and Leonardo. The playful ribbing between Donnie and Casey while they worked on fixing the old pickup truck. The characters in the first one had much more personality and depth. Sure some parts where dark. That just made it cooler. I'm sorry but, Ninja's where kicking the crap out of each-other in NY City, someone’s going to get hurt, it can't all be(go ninja... go) on a dance floor. Honestly Pete, I'm glad you posted this. It actually pleases me to know you had a whole different take on what the second film should be. I wish they would have listened to your advice more. If they did, the film would have had a lot more integrity.

      PL said:"Well, it couldn't have been TOO freakin' "dark"… because it made A HUNDRED AND THIRTY-FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, on a budget which was -- as I understand it -- about fifteen percent of that amount!!!"

      Right on Pete!

      On a side note: One thing I have been really enjoying about the 4Kids cartoon series is the fact you did not dumb it down. There have been many episodes that I have enjoyed as much as my 9 year old son has. (Especially those first two seasons, so well done!) My son was not at all confused about Utroms, heck he thought they where really cool. Just as I did when I was a boy and first saw the Utroms in the comics. I honestly hate it when we dumb things down for children. Just because they are young does not mean they are stupid. (Ya, I'm looking at you creators of Spongebob!)

    3. TMNT Movie "vs" Comic

      Here is a quick comparison of the scene in the first film with the comic panel. This is the scene I was talking about where Raphael is beat badly and tossed through the skylight. (In the comics it was Leo who took the beating) I had to dig out my copy of TMNT #10 to find the panel I was speaking about. Took a quick shot of it with my blackberry so the quality is not the greatest. I have to give the first film credit. They got it right!

  4. Peter, this stuff is very interesting. I also thought that Baxter Stockman and the Rat King would have made for an excellent movie. As a kid, I thought that after the second movie you could do the whole Mouser story line and have the Rat King be a part of that as well. Maybe even have human thugs Bebop and Rocksteady working for Baxter through out the movie. Then at the end when Baxter is defeated, have him go back to his lab to reveal a life supporting tank with the Shredder in it to lead into the next movie "RETURN OF THE SHREDDER". That movie could start off with Baxter thinking that the saved Shredder would work for him, but be quickly changed when the Shredder comes back to life... maybe turning Bebop and Rocksteady into the mutant warriors that we know and love? Getting some sweet revenge on the turtles?

    Sorry to ramble on... it is just that I have had those ideas running through my mind forever and it is nice to see that others "including the creators" have had similar ideas as well. Thanks for all you have done and I hope you keep sharing these wonderful insights into your creative process.

  5. Peter, thanks for sharing this - It's insane how you guys floated out all those fantastic ideas but the suits went in a stupid direction instead. That's not to hate on the movie which I'm mildly fond of, but some aspects of it are just really painful and it could've been so much more.

    Love triangle - pretty interesting. Charles isn't the most obvious choice, but like you said there's a lot of ripe material in the clashing personalities.

    The absence of Casey/Elias Koteas in the second film is palpable. Also, I don't know why Judith Hoag didn't return as April, but if the two of them were in the sequel it really would've given it some dramatic heft that was missing (that's not a knock against Paige Turco, just a distracting change).

    Thanks for trying to keep the tone Mirage-style. The instinct to keep Shredder out of the sequel and save him for later was also wise - too bad they flubbed that one.

    Sadly it seems this will never change. When the combined magical creative powers of Guillermo Del Toro and revenue-engine of Jim Cameron can't even get an R rating, who else stands a chance?

  6. Are you sure the sci-fi stuff would have been better received by the general public though? The idea of talking mutated Turtles was still grounded mostly in reality, (Shredder and the Foot), as opposed to if the Turtles were actually in space with Triceratons and Utroms.

    And the budget probably would have been astronomical. Wouldn't they have to create sets of spaceships similar to those scene in the "Alien" movies, the old Star Trek movies and Star Wars? Would they really do that for a Turtle movie back in the early 90's?

    1. I don't know about that. Star War was produced on an $11 million dollar budget in 1977 (not a very astronomical budget compared to most films). Lucas had a ton of cool sci-fi effects in it. It can be done. The TMNT second live action film was produced on a budget of $25 million. (according to wikipedia) I would think that would have been enough to produce special effects like sci-fi sets, animatronic suits, ect. I think the hardest effect to pull of would probably be a mouser army. There is no doubt in my mind that Henson’s Creature Shop could have found a way to do it with minimum cost. Those guys are real pros!
      I think the Turtles meeting Utrom aliens and fighting Triceratons would be less far fetched than the Shredder living through the garbage truck crushing him or, the mutants Tokka and Rahzar fighting it out with the Turtles on the dance floor while the Ice Man lays down his rhymes. I personally would have preferred the “sci-fi stuff” to the silly stuff that we got. I however am weird and, I do not represent the general public.
      I say why not do that for a “turtle movie”? The first one was great. They made one heck of a profit off of it. Why not make the sequel even more epic?

  7. Apparently, all the mutagen does in the second movie is make you grow and gain intelligence. otherwise, wouldn't shredder have mutated into a giant turtle?

    1. I think it's probably best not to spend too much time trying to figure out what the mutagen in the second movie is supposed to do, given the obvious lack of consistency -- epitomized by the fact that at the end of the movie it mutates inorganic, unliving matter (the Shredder's metal armor). SOOOO stupid. -- PL

  8. Peter thank you for sharing this. Yes, like everyone here I saw the two first movies, but the third. According to many people the third live action movie of the TMNT was really ridiculous so if its not worth it to watch it, I won't see it.

    Peter what is your opinion about the 2007 TMNT movie?

  9. "margui118Mar 1, 2012 01:44 PM
    Peter thank you for sharing this. Yes, like everyone here I saw the two first movies, but the third. According to many people the third live action movie of the TMNT was really ridiculous so if its not worth it to watch it, I won't see it."

    In my opinion, the second TMNT live-action movie was far more ridiculous than the third one.

    "Peter what is your opinion about the 2007 TMNT movie?"

    I think it is a decent story, with some great animation. Very watchable. -- PL

  10. Let's just all hope that Viacom/Paramount gives us an awesome TMNT movie when it finally hits theaters sometime around 2014 or so.

    Its just too bad it seems such a long ways away.

  11. I really appreciate you showing us your original notes on the 2nd movie! I have always liked Secret of the Ooze since I was a kid, but it's not hard to tell that your vision would have likely made for a much more awesome and memorable film! The idea of a Mirage Film Trilogy adapting all the way up through Return to New York would have been epic!

    The only difficulty in adapting RtNY for a 3rd film would have been that making of the themes of those stories had already been covered in the first film. Shredder's empire would have to be explained since it the first film it just seemed like he recruited trouble youths rather than skilled assassins.

    1. Wow, I butchered the grammar in that comment.

      Insert "many of the themes" for "making of the themes"

      "since in the first film" for "it the first film"

      "troubled youths" for "trouble youths"

      I've just proven the wisdom of reading over one's comments before posting them!

    2. "I've just proven the wisdom of reading over one's comments before posting them!"

      Adam, I prove that to myself just about every day! -- PL

  12. Wow what a fascinating read! I enjoyed reading the Raph/Mikey fight especially, since Mike is my favorite and never really gets too much action love in these movies. Bits and pieces of the way this fight goes down with Raph's temper could be viewed in the 2007 movie where Raph pins Leo down after their battle.

    The Rat King would've been a sensational add to the mix as well. I never understood why Casey Jones wasn't involved in the 2nd movie.

    I still really don't understand the whole "dark" idea. Nobody's heads were getting chopped off or serious stabbings in the first movie. (Combat cold-cuts anyone? lol)

    If they really wanted to push the cartoon TMNT they should've just gathered all of the tmnt tv crew and made an animated movie.

    Being 27 now and about 7-8 when the 2nd movie came out.

    I still enjoy it and will watch it maybe once a year, ("A little too Raph will never get old!" ) but just this script here would've been much more enjoyable :)

    If anything they could've had at least ONE Triceraton somewhere in the mix instead of the Tokha/Razar characters which really is a crazy mix (Shredder: And these are the 2 most vicious animals you could find) Where do you even find a snapping turtle and a wolf together" lol!)

    Thanks I look forward to reading more of these blogs!


  13. I have never understood why they keep rebooting the story of the turtles vs Shredder instead of taking one of the great, self-contained, stories from the comics.

    Basically... I want a City of War movie.

    I also thank you greatly for taking the time to add all the spaces back in and format this. I know what I pain that can be and we greatly appreciate it! :-)

  14. is the new movie title change true? I knew they couldn't stay away from the brand awareness Peter created. source: http://teenagemutantninjaturtles.com/news/movies/bays-flick-renamed-to-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles

  15. I don't know if you still read comments for this blog, or if there's any sort of notification system, but I was led to this after looking into why Bebop and Rocksteady weren't included in the second movie, while watching said movie with my children (as a kid, I was disappointed they weren't included!). My kids have bitten the TMNT bug thanks to "Rise" and found the 90s movies fascinating. I was 7 when I saw the original movie and was the biggest fan of the series. I totally understand your disappointment with the distortion of the source material for both the series and the movies, but I just want to say that your turtles were among my most fond memories as a child. I lived for Saturday mornings with the turtles! And I'm so beyond happy the my children get to enjoy them as well. Thank you for making them, even if the version I got to enjoy didn't meet your vision.