Blast from the Past #648: February 4, 2005: some backstory ideas

Subj: some backstory ideas
Date: Friday, February 4, 2005 3:15:21 PM
From: Peter Laird
To:   Kevin Munroe

Kevin,

I was giving some thought to our backstory, and came up with the following. Maybe it will help!

-- Peter

------------------------------

notes on movie backstory 02/01/05

Maybe Yaotl and his generals were arrogant, overconfident... named themselves "The Immortal" and his "Four Fists of Stone"... and when they were cursed, these names became literal.

I like the opening we have already talked about, where Leo is doing a training thing in South America, but as I was thinking about this whole backstory issue, I started to see a really cool alternate opening, something that would have some of the look and feel of the opening scene of the first "Lord of the Rings" movie. This, as you will recall, sets the scene with the ancient battle against Sauron, wherein during the course of the huge fight between the hosts of Mordor and the armies of Men and Elves, the Ring of Power is cut from Sauron's hand.

What if: Our backstory concerns a power struggle set in the dim and distant past of Mesoamerica, perhaps in the time of the Olmecs (or we could create a "lost civilization" of our own devising which predated the Olmecs and -- because of what happened in this great conflict -- vanished without a trace (perhaps whatever scanty evidence of its existence which DID survive the conflict was deliberately eradicated by future civilizations in that region). This was a time of great strife and violence, and one in which magic and sorcery played a large part. Fell beasts walked the land, warriors were raised from the dead, arcane powers were wielded by mages, etc..
One man, leading a small yet deadly army, rose to a position of power, bolstered by his four sub-generals and his knowledge of sorcery. He was Yaotl -- self-named "The Immortal", and his sub-generals called themselves "The Fists of Stone". Yaotl sought to subjugate all the peoples of Mesoamerica under his despotic rule.
But an alliance of his foes gathered together all their armies and all of their magic, and in a campaign against Yaotl which culminated in a huge battle somewhere in the jungles of the Yucatan, they threw down Yaotl and his generals. It was an insane battle, with blood and guts flowing like water, and the screams of men mixed with the unearthly howls of things from the mists of legend -- giant flying, feathered serpents... jaguars that walked like men... huge armor-clad apes... and so on.
The victors slew Yaotl's army, but devised a more fitting, and ultimately more cruel, punishment for the usurper and his four generals -- using magics now lost to prehistory, they cursed these evil men, turning the generals into literal stone men, and Yaotl into a true immortal... cursed to wander the Earth forever, never resting, always seeing his loved ones wither and die (or, in the case of his offspring, become the living dead!).

One of the reasons I suggest doing something like this is -- if we go with the "ancient curse" idea we've been working on -- it could go a long way toward making clear the backstory which the audience must understand to comprehend why Yaotl/Winters is doing what he's doing. It could save us from a lot of potentially clunky exposition later on in the movie.

Blast from the Past #647: February 2, 2005: Re: Turtles Gear

Subj: Re: Turtles Gear
Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2005 10:52:34 PM
From: Peter Laird
To:   Kevin Munroe

In a message dated 2/2/05 3:22:53 AM, Kevin Munroe writes:

<<Hey Peter,

As discussed, here are some early designs for updated Turtle gear. I really love
these, mainly because they character-motivated and it's another chance to drill
home character other than just movement and dialogue.

There are two parts of the gear here, in my view - the first is the
belt/holster portion, and the second is the wrist/foot/joint parts. The two
aren't necessarily part and parcel of the same package to me, and can be look
at as independent of one another.

It's still a little early for these, compared to other things you've been
looking at. But I figured we already had them sketched out, so wanted to get
your feedback. I'd love to at least dress Leo in some cool gear for the teaser
trailer. The rest can wait for production.

Things not to look at in these sketches - the turtle designs themselves and the
bandanas.

More to come...

Kevin>>


Kevin,

Thanks for sending the sketch. Although you say to not pay attention to the turtles designs themselves and the bandanas, I feel compelled to point out -- and maybe save us some time in the future -- that neither are a direction I want to go in.

Regarding the gear designs -- I'm not sure if I mentioned this in these exact terms during any of our conversations, but as a rule of thumb I'm not interested in any significant/substantial design changes in the regular (i.e. non-mission specific) gear the Turtles wear/use/carry. Over the last twenty years, we have established and kept pretty consistent (with the lamentable exception of the execrable "Next Mutation" live action TV show, about which no more will be said) the iconic "look" of the Turtles. It's pretty basic -- much like Superman's suit. And unlike, say, the X-Men costumes, which were I think rightly "butched up" when they were translated into movie costumes, the Turtles' basic look has already proven itself in animation and three live action movies. So I don't really see a compelling reason to "slick it up". Part of the "charm", if you will, of the Turtles' gear is that is has a kind of homemade quality to it, a slight funkiness... not super-slick like Batman or the X-Men.

That being said, I think there might be a way we can use SOME of what is in this drawing. Not the hand or feet things -- I don't like them. But perhaps some of the belts/straps/pouches could be used in certain key scenes, if the Turtles need them to carry specific stuff for a specific purpose. And one of the reasons I don't like the hand and feet things is that they look too much like the kind of padded gear martial arts students use while practicing to avoid hurting each other... but for that very reason, maybe we COULD use them for a training scene. Nah... as I just finished typing that, I realized that would be kind of wussy for the Turtles. But maybe April could use something like that. 

Also, color-wise, I don't think black/dark gray works for me. I like the brown -- it goes better with green.

Now this is not to say that I am averse to tweaking the regular gear that the Turtles have -- for example, I think I may have mentioned that I've never been 100% happy with the way Leo's scabbards and the belts/straps that hold them are designed. But any approvable changes would likely be pretty small.

-- Peter

Blast from the Past #646: February 2, 2005: Re: Teaser Boards

Subj: Re: Teaser Boards
Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2005 1:19:19 PM
From: Peter Laird
To:   Kevin Munroe

Kevin,

I'm generally quite pleased with these storyboards -- I think this will be a REALLY fun trailer. I have a few comments, as follows:

1.) In board 1, it would be cool if there is some movement to the clouds across the moon -- "scudding", if you will. Another thing I thought of as I was looking at this first board -- would it work if, instead of a pan DOWN from the sky, the moon and clouds we see in that first frame are actually a REFLECTION in a puddle of water on the rooftop... so we would pan UP from it to get to the rooftop setting in board 1.1? It might be a neat way to throw off the audience's expectations. A subtle vibration-induced ripple in that water might be a nice way to start the transition to the pan, and also subtly imply to the viewer that SOMETHING is on the rooftop and is causing that vibration...but WHAT??!!

2.) Another idea occurred to me when looking at this first sequence -- what if we opened with cops with flashlights and guns prowling around the rooftop, looking for... somebody. There could be flashing blue lights reflecting off some walls in the background, from their cruisers parked on the street -- tying in with the cop car at the end of the trailer. (The obvious implication is that they are looking for the Turtles. Actually, we could use Foot ninja instead of cops.) After a few seconds of this, they leave... there's a beat... and THEN we go into the bandanas appearing, the Turtles coming out of the shadows, etc..
The reason I suggest this is that it would be a fun way to show how amazingly stealthy the Turtles are, and how they can use their incredible ninja skills and training to hide even in such dire circumstances... as well as once again emphasize their "outsider" status. Just a thought.

3.) I wonder if, instead of a pan up which follows the leaping Turtle (boards 7.1 to 7.3), it would be more dramatic to have that middle Turtle (the one who leaps) run right AT the camera, briefly filling the whole frame with black. OR... as that Turtle approaches, have the camera swing around to his side, then push in towards his back as he runs past, and FOLLOW him as he leaps between rooftops, moving above him and panning down to catch that vertigo-inducing view of the distance to the ground. (I'm thinking of the scenes in the first "Spider-Man" movie when Peter Parker was feeling out his powers and leaping from building to building, with the camera moving overhead, looking straight down.)

4.) I wonder if somewhere in this sequence it would be cool to have two or more of the Turtles do some kind of "team gymnastics" type of move where the use each others' bodies to bounce off of. Not sure EXACTLY what this would be, but the simplest thing that I'm seeing is something like this: One Turtle lands in a crouch, and before he can move, another Turtle sticks a landing on the first Turtle's back and uses him to launch off of into a new jump.

5.) I love the foot in the water thing!

6.) If possible, I would love to throw in a faded logo painted on the side of a building (seen very quickly) that would read something like "Mirage _______" (could be "Studios" or "Moving" or "Warehouse"... it's the "Mirage" part that is key).

7.) In boards 19 through 20, which have the Turtles crossing those horizontal pipes between buildings, I wonder if it might be fun to have one of them -- maybe the center one -- actually sliding on his feet part way across the pipe, as if he were doing a skateboard move.

8.) The arched pipe blowing steam in boards 21 and 21.1 looks kind of goofy -- like it was made out of rubber to bend like that.

9.) Is that really a "tower clock" in the background in 21.2 and 21.3, or some kind of billboard? It's not clear to me. Actually, this might be the PERFECT place to do the "MIrage ______" thing I suggested earlier.

10.) Somewhere -- most likely between boards 26 and 27.1 -- it would be fantastic to do a brief shot of the four Turtles arranged as they were in the first page of the first TMNT comic book (a group pose I reprised in the first issue of Vol. 4 of TMNT). This could be just as they realize -- because of the sound of sirens and/or reflected light coming into the alley from the police cruiser's lights -- that the cops are coming and they have to leave. I'm thinking it would be better to do it in a slightly more three-quarters view as in the Volume 4 version, instead of the flat, more straight-on view in the original Volume 1 page. (I'm attaching a graphic showing the pages in question.) I think it would give the fans a big thrill. (And me too!)

11.) I'm a little confused by boards 30 and 31 -- I don't get the point of this particular angle.

12.) I like the push in on the manhole cover/TMNT logo thing to end this trailer -- it should get the TMNT fans up out of their chairs! We may actually have some logo designs for manhole covers which also incorporate abstract turtle shell patterns which might be appropriate.

-- Peter

Blast from the Past #645: January 26, 2005: Re: ninja stuff

Subj: Re: ninja stuff
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:19:58 PM
From: Peter Laird
To:   Kevin Munroe

In a message dated 1/26/05 2:05:40 AM, Kevin Munroe writes:

<<Hey Peter,

I'm sure you're probably hip-deep in notes for all the stuff you're looking over, but I'd love to have a phone conversation with you some time next week about your views on the whole ninja vs. samurai/bushido concept. (particularly how each discipline pertains to the Turtles.) Had a few questions come up when working on everything from story to even weaponry.

I have my theories/interpretations, but I wanted to see what your views were.

Back to packing - we're moving on thursday. Yay.

Best,

Kevin>>


Kevin,

Good luck with your move -- you have my sympathies!

About ninja/samurai... I'm happy to have another phone call with you, but let me set down here a few musings about the subject.

When Kevin Eastman and I created the Turtles, we were operating with a limited amount of knowledge about what ninjas were/are. We did do some research, and had been exposed to various concepts and iterations of ninjas through other comics, TV, movies, books, etc.. We made the Turtles ninjas instead of samurai in large part because the hiding/sneaking aspect of ninjas seemed to perfectly fit with these wacky anthropomorphic mutants, who would need such skills to survive in a human world, and because they were "cooler" than samurai. Even though we knew that the ninja were historically like "hit men", and had a fairly nasty reputation, we thought we could establish a modern breed of ninja, a ninja with "honor" -- a shadow warrior who would "do the right thing".

We made Splinter's owner, Hamato Yoshi, one of this type of ninja (though now that I think back on it, we never really showed him doing too many good things -- just being better that the bad ninjas. like Oroku Nagi and Oroku Saki).  In any event, Splinter, once he became sentient, took this one step further, and passed on to the Turtles his even more enlightened version of "honor".

Of course, it is debatable whether the concept of vengeance killing (as in the Turtles killing the Shredder to avenge Splinter's master) is compatible with "honor". We played with that a little in the early comics, where the Turtles started to question the mission that Splinter had sent them on (to kill the Shredder) and how it had so many negative repercussions.

We did lift much of the "honor" bit from what we knew of the samurai "bushido" code, and in fact even referred to it as such in some comics and TV. I know that this is in some sense mixing apples and oranges, but given the bizarre nature of our set of characters, we felt comfortable doing a little mixing and matching.

Like many things, the nature of "ninja" has changed over time. As you are probably aware, there are "ninja schools" in this and other countries where people are trained in ninja techniques -- not as potential assassins, but in much the same way and for the same reasons that people study other martial arts like judo, karate, kung fu, etc. -- for physical and mental conditioning. I think we took the "cool" parts of the whole ninja bit -- the martial arts, the weapons, the stealth -- and applied them to the Turtles and our concept of ninja, and left out all of the sketchy stuff -- murder for hire, poisoning, terrorism, etc..

Hope that helps!

I am busy writing up my thoughts on the second treatment -- I'm about halfway through and have about eight pages so far. Also, you sent some sketches a few days ago, which I am having trouble getting because the images are embedded in the email instead of being attached. Can you resend that email with the images attached? AOL seems to deal with that better.

Talk to you soon.

-- Peter

Blast from the Past #644: January 20, 2005: Re: don's staff

Date:  Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:12:12 PM

Subj:  Re: don's staff

From:  Peter Laird

To:    Kevin Munroe

In a message dated 1/18/05 3:53:27 PM, Kevin Munroe writes:

<<Hey Peter,

Hope you had a good weekend.

  We're starting to roll on this trailer now and it's going to be awesome, I think. Really great mood and tone stuff.

  Quick question - would you be open to Donatello having a telescoping bo-staff? Something a little higher tech than a piece of wood?

  Was thinking that could be cool, or if we keep the staff as long, it might be neat to have a bunch of "attachments" that he can clip on from his waist or something in mid-battle - blades, flags, claws, etc.

  Nit picky stuff, but just thought I'd ask. Not sure if any is applicable to the teaser trailer.

Still should get some Leo designs and the rev'ed treatment to you by friday.

  Hope all is well,

Kevin>>

Kevin,

  I read the breakdown for the Turtle teaser trailer, and it looks good -- though I wonder what the term "rlo" means. One comment -- while conceptually it is a cool reveal when the bandana tails start to blow in the breeze, I'm wondering it it might look a bit silly to have one, then another, then a third in sequence. In other words, why don't they all start waving in the breeze at once? Maybe this can be done with careful timing. It might also help if there is something else in the shot to show that there IS a breeze and these aren't "self-waving" headbands (something which happens far too often in our animated TV show) -- maybe some stuff on the rooftop starts blowing around (paper, discarded trash, cloths on a clothsline, etc.).

  I notice you mention the idea of a telescoping staff for Don in the trailer breakdown as well. I have to tell you that this is an idea which I have thought about and which has been proposed a number of times, and -- even given how much I love tech stuff and gadgets -- I've never loved it, for a few reasons. 

First, of all the Turtles' weapons, Don's is the simplest and most "honest", if you will -- in fact, it's really just a stick! (Albeit one which has been carefully shaped, sanded, balanced, etc..) As such, its very simplicity emphasizes exactly how good Don is at being a ninja -- look at the marvelous things he can do with just a stick! (And as a stick, it is supremely reliable -- it's always just as it is, you don't have to worry that it has an expanding mechanism which could get jammed at a critical moment in battle, and so on.)

  Second, as a practical matter, if you look at it logically, unless the sections of the telescoping staff are made of adamantium or unobtainium, it's NEVER going to be as strong as one single piece of material. There will be some amount of flex and slop in its "joints".

  And that leads to the third problem, again one of logic and "realism" -- any time you make a telescoping staff, the segments which telescope outward must, of necessity, be progressively smaller in diameter at you go out towards the ends of the staff... and I think that looks goofy. UNLESS you cheat it, and make it "magic technology"... which is actually one of my pet peeves in movie special effects -- the "tech effect" which LOOKS like technology but is actually closer to magic. Two examples of this are the Batmobile's armor and those headresses of the Egyptian-style characters in "Stargate" (the movie). In both cases, the objects in question just appear out of nowhere, with no logical rationale for WHERE they could have come from. They just appear, and it always reads to me as the result of somebody in a position of power saying "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if..." and not thinking any further than that. That kind of thing REALLY bugs me.

I look forward to your second shot at the treatment!

   -- Peter

Blast from the Past #643: January 12, 2005: Re: tmnt sketch

(Note: For the next few weeks or months -- depending on how many emails I put into each "Blast from the Past" blog entry -- I will be posting select emails between me and Kevin Munroe (director) and Galen Walker (producer) from the development of the 2007 TMNT CGI animated feature film. -- PL)

Subj: Re: tmnt sketch
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 4:38:59 PM
From: Peter Laird
To:   Kevin Munroe

In a message dated 1/11/05 12:19:38 AM, Kevin Munroe writes:

<<Hey peter!

It was great speaking with you on friday. It's so much more helpful (and fun) to speak directly. Direct communication - how un-Hollywood.>>

Kevin,

I agree!

<<I'm working on a beat treatment, fleshing out some of the ideas we discussed. I'm liking the feeling of it. Working in casey and april - I can see why you like them, they're so organic to this world.>>

I look forward to reading it.

<<Here is the rough sketch I mentioned. (emphasis on rough - was on scrap paper at my in-laws) Not an official submission, but just wanted to illustrate the concept of making their body types more "teenage", versus hulking and muscular. Don't want to make them "skinny" tho.

It's an idea, and I'm sure my designers will do a better job. But does this throw up any red flags with you? We'll of course explore a few different looks just to be thorough.

And I took your rejected-Playmates-sculpt anecdote to heart. We'll stay away from too-human looks.??>>

I appreciate your sending me the sketch, and I made the following notes about it (I went into perhaps a little more detail than absolutely necessary, but maybe that's a good thing at this point):

Nice drawing. I like the general proportions -- very similar to our original TMNT, albeit a little taller -- and the "attitude", but there are some details that are wrong or slightly off. 

Leo's scabbard/belt has some odd things about it -- I'm not sure I'm loving the waist-level rings -- but the weirdest thing (and this happens more often than you might imagine when other artists draw Leo) is where the diagonal scabbard belt is GOING when it gets to his shoulder. Is it attached TO his shoulder? Is it going INTO his shell? (It should go OVER the shoulder and top edge of the shell.) As an aside, I will confess that Leo's belt/scabbard set up is something that we have always "cheated" in the comics -- we've never actually figured out EXACTLY how those pieces come together logically to work as they should. In fact, in a recent issue of the TMNT comic, Jim Lawson drew a scene where Leo was wearing the belts/straps WITHOUT the scabbards attached -- and what he drew looked so odd that I whited it out! So I am open to a redesign of this gear so that it makes more sense/looks better, but it will be one of those "I'll know it when I see it" kind of things.

I'm not crazy about the scraggly wraps around the calves and wrists -- and where are the elbow pads and knee pads (I see one of those, but...)? Also, while the "conical calves" idea looks cool in this drawing, and is very much like we originally drew the Turtles' calves, I'm not 100% sure it would work in animation.

The "tail" coming off the hilt of the katana is an interesting touch, though it feels more Chinese than Japanese. If we went in that direction, I think it should be significantly shorter/smaller so as not to get confused with the bandanna/mask. 

While I like the grimace on Leo's face, I think his head proportions are off -- maybe it's just too "cartoony", making his head look like it's half teeth in volume. I'm sure you didn't intend this, but to me the shape of the head and that "head forward" position gives Leo an unfortunate kind of "dumb redneck" look.

I'm pretty happy with the way you drew his plastron (front shell), though there is a LITTLE bit of "humanizing" there -- not much, just a little -- with the subtle indication of pectoral muscles on the protruding lower edge of the top row of chest plates. I like to keep it more like a turtle's actual plastron, so as to remind the viewer that this is NOT a funny-looking human being.

-- Peter

Blast from the Past #642: January 16, 2004: Re: FW: TMNT - 062 ext outline

(Well, it looks like this will be the last of the posts here on my TMNT blog featuring the email exchanges I had with Lloyd Goldfine and a few of the other folks at 4Kids during the development of the animated TMNT TV series which started airing in 2003. I suppose it's possible I might dig up a few more, but I'd say it's pretty unlikely. I hope those of you who have read these have enjoyed this look behind the scenes of the making of that series. -- PL)


Subj: Re: FW: TMNT - 062 ext outline
Date: Friday, January 16, 2004 11:36:43 AM
From: Peter Laird
To:   Lloyd Goldfine

Lloyd,

Just read the revised extended outline for Ep. 62 ("Survivalist Skills"), and it's GREATLY improved. I have only a few comments, as follows. 

1.) If the apples that Mike and Raph shot at get "split in half", how do they stay "nailed" to the tree? Also, is there a good reason why BOTH Raph and Mike are shooting at the same time, instead of one at a time? And I want to get a "William Tell" quip in there at some point.

2.) When we go to the scene of Skonk and his pals gathered in their HQ, I thought it would be a good thing to show the dune buggy that Don and Raph eventually steal, somewhere in the background -- either in the garage or parked outside.
Also, in that scene, I don't see the need for this:

"He points to various tabloids with fuzzy photos, reading off headlines that describe events that will be familiar to viewers of our series.  Substitute the word "Turtles" for the word "Aliens" and they're remarkably accurate."

It's kind of weird -- is the point that these fuzzy photos are actually OF the Turtles? If so, why? There should be plenty of perfectly clear photos of the Trcieraton/Federation alien invasion force available to the media, and Skonk and company are certainly the sort who, upon seeing the Turtles, would draw the "strange creature = alien" conclusion.

3.) Re: the following:

"Ma Jones dodges as April angrily throws peeled apples at her and asserts herself."

This is way too slapsticky, I don't think April would do it, and it also undermines her success in Casey's Mom's "trials". I would rather see her make a brief gesture which IMPLIES that she would like nothing better than to bean Mom with an apple... but she controls that urge and POLITELY (but firmly) asserts herself to Mom... and then in fact does what Mom has asked her to do (make the apple cider).
This "trials of April" thing CAN be really fun, but I think it will take some clever crafting and timing on our part(s) when we get to script stage to make it fly. I think a key thing to keep in mind is that this whole interaction is also a way to get deeper into who April is (as well as Casey and his Mom, who I think will reappear at some point in the future). I want to be careful to not make Casey's Mom look like a loon... but a tough, clever, slightly eccentric woman who loves her son.

4.) Where do Don and Raph get the ShellCel headsets they use in the pursuit of the truck? And do they really need them?

5.) I think it would work better -- and be more satisfying in regard to April's relationship to Casey's Mom -- if there is a moment in that penultimate scene when Mom surprises April by praising her, which allows April to begin to warm up to her (I really don't think we should leave this episode with April thinking Mom hates her).

I could see it working something like this: Casey returns with the groceries. He finds April in the kitchen working on a mound of dirty dishes (remnants of pie and cider making). He asks her how things are going with Mom... April responds glumly that it seems that no matter what she does, Mom doesn't like her. At that moment, Mom appears with a piece of fresh-baked apple pie and a glass of chilled apple cider (actually, I guess at this point in time it would just be apple juice? Does cider need to age?) for April. She gives April the juice, tells her to sit down and enjoy it -- after all, she made it and it was hard work! -- and "Don't worry about those dishes -- Arnold will take care of 'em." And the pie wouldn't exist without her efforts, either. April, stunned, stammers out a "T-thanks, Mrs. Jones..." and Mom gives her a little pat on the shoulder and says "Call me Mom, dear." We see a little smile on April's face.

Mom then tells Casey to follow her outside to do something (get something from the barn? the car? whatever), and then the scene follows pretty much as already laid out.

-- Pete